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अभी , एक ग्रुप
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यानि भगवान इतना कष्ट क्यों देते हैं , कृपालु होकर भी ,
इस विषय में मेरे कुछ विचार निम्नलिखित हैं.
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दुःख के बारे में मेरे विचार :
कई बार मेरा भी मन किया कि एस प्रश्न पर भगवान को घेरा जाये .
पर जब भी इन कष्टों और उसकी कृपा में तुलना कि तो कष्टों में भी कृपा के दर्शन हुए , और मुकदमा सुनने से पहले ही ख़ारिज हो गया .
फिर भी ये तो जानना ही पड़ेगा कि आखिर दुःख हैं क्या ?
हमारे मन के विपरीत जो भी बात हो , वो हमें दुःख नज़र आती है ,
बच्चे को चोकलेट न दिलाएं तो दुःख है , जबकि माता-पिता को मालूम है कि कितनी चोकलेट कब दिलानी है .
कई बार किसी के कार्य को देख कर हमें उस पर दया व् दुःख होता है : बच्चे का व्रण कटवाने के लिए
माँ बच्चे को डाक्टर के पास ले जाती है और व्रण कटते समय बच्चे का दुःख देखा नहीं जाता .
बच्चे के लिए माँ रात में उठ कर खाना बनाती है और हमें लगता है ये तो
माँ के प्रति अत्याचार है , मगर वह अत्याचार तो नहीं होता .
इन परिपक्ष्य में तो दुःख के मायने पहले ढूढने पड़ेंगे , क्योकि दुःख-सुख तुलनात्मक हैं.
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मगर मेरा खुद का supplementary (पूरक प्रश्न ) यह है , कि
चलो औरों को तो विभिन्न कारणों से कष्ट मिलता है , पर भक्तों को भी क्यों .
जैसे प्रहलाद गर्भ से ही भक्त थे , देवकी , वासुदेव उनके माता पिता थे , द्रोपदी उनकी संबन्धिनी भी थी
पांडव उनके मित्र एवं संबंदी थे , और तो और सुदामा तो उनके हाथ में हाथ दाल कर घूमते थे , क्या भगवान का
स्पर्श भी उनके कष्ट दूर करने में असमर्थ था .
इस ग्रुप के मोडरेटर ने बहुत सुंदर बात लिखी है कि कृपया वही लोग इस वार्ता में शरीक हों जो हिंदू धर्म के
अनुसार , शाश्त्रनुसार ही लिख सकते हों .
मन चाही बातें तो हज़ार , लाख हैं . उनके नियम निम्न लिखित हैं ;
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मुझे ये नियम पसंद आये :
यदि हिंदी लेखक भी इस विषय में , कुछ मेरा मार्गदर्शन करें तो अति कृपा होगी .
उनके द्वारा लिखे गए उत्तर निचे लिखे हैं :
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why lord gives lot of pain out of `His Mercy
rkm
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Shree Hari Ram Ram
For a man to become a great soul once and for all, God alerts and warns man to stay away from desires, for desire is the root of all sins, pain and suffering. "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" in Hindi pg 238 , in English pg 417 by Swami Ramsukhdasji
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God tells Arjuna - "Madbhakto bhav, manmanaa bhav, madhyaajee bhav, maam namaskuru". In all these four, God's aim for Jeev (embodied souls) is only to get the Jeev to come towards Him, i.e. to turn away from the unreal and perishable. The reason is that the main cause of sorrow, pain and suffering, of the unending birth and death cycle, and of all adversities is turning away from God.
From "Sharanagati" in Hindi page 23-25 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.
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: Shree Hari:
Ram Ram
6th September, 2009, Sunday, Ashwin Krishna Dvitiya
The phase of the dark moon - from full moon to no moon (krishna paksh) and the phase of the bright moon - from no moon to full moon (shukla paksh) - both of them provide equal amount of light and darkness. There is no difference between the two. Similarly, pleasure and pain are also the same. When an enemy comes it is painful but when he goes it is pleasurable, whereas when a friend comes it is pleasurable and when he goes it is painful. One feels good in coming and bad in going and the other feels good in going and bad in coming - but good and bad is there in both. Both are equal. So there is no better or worse in favourable or unfavourable circumstances.
The world is made up of coming and going, uniting and separating. The mistake that is committed is that we give importance to the uniting but do not pay attention to the separating. When you start eating it satisfies you, gives you pleasure, but once your stomach is full, the same food gives you pain. You cannot eat a bit also. You do not realise that the pleasure will turn into pain.....
To permanently get rid of pain... (Gods wants that we) rise above both pleasure and pain, and attain Eternal Bliss, (God).
Ram Ram
Summary of the morning pravachan of Swami Ramsukhdasji on Sept 5, 1991 at 5.20 a.m.
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Dear Sadaks,God gives pain, because HE likes you. True. Believe or not it is in Upanashids. God allows more money, pleasures etc for whom HE is unable to show mercy.
First to know about GOD in-spite of so many pains/sufferings/hurdles many saints took time. See today on net about Somalia- people dying of food, shelter and they are bonny and unable even to walk. Are you in that situation? If you not so- then thank GOD.
B.Sathyanarayan
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to get GOLD out of ORE
Ore has to be heated at high temperature
for a reasonable long time
same treatment God gives to most of the Sadhakas(as Ore)
HariBol HariBol
HariHariBol
Badri Taneja
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You asked : Why lord gives lot of pain out of 'His Mercy'?
Because only pain (not pleasure) reminds you of His Mercy under which you are with Him.
So be it.
Savinay,
Saadhaka.
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Lord doesnt give pain, if you identify Lord with pain, you get PAIN, but if you identify Lord with Glory, you get GLORY.So if i were you, i would identify Lord with Glory, very simple.
May Lord's Glory by upon you
Love,
Universal
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Dear RKM,
From absolute perspective of God, the pain is illusory. It does not exist. So, God does not give you pain.
From relative perspective, this world is full of duality both happiness and distress. Happiness comes and goes. Sameway, distress also comes and goes. The problem is that you don't try to understand the nature of the world. When happiness comes, you take it as granted. For example, you can breathe and the ability to breathe is some sort of happiness. I have breathing issues and I can understand the distress of not able to breathe and happiness to be able to breathe. For me, breath is happiness. But most people take it for granted. They focus more on distress even though world has both happiness and distress. You are seeing the glass has half empty instead of half full. If you see it rationally, then you will find that world has both happiness and distress. That is nature of the world.
From the sharanagati (surrender to God), one may see both happiness and distress as mercy of God. Generally, it is easy to accept happiness as His mercy. Devotee sees distress as His mercy also. But he is giving both.
At His feet in service,
G B
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it is said kunti has asked krishna to give her pain so that she may remember krishna always
jai shri krishna
Chaman nigam
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To make DIAMOND out of U
"Mohan K Muju"
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Dear Members & sadhak_insight,
A human suffers pain or enjoys pleasure as ordained by his Destiny or Fate,written by Brahma himself,soon after his birh based on his Karma...nothing or nobody can change/alter/modify this...
Yogesh Lajmi.
GOOD LUCK !
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Once we get even some basic realization,
what the Supreme Paramathma gives is to be enjoyed
as He syas, these are beyond pain and pleasure - Samadhrishti -
as His total blessing. Gita is very clear about this.
When you have expecgtations beyond realities, then you get depressed and feel the "Pain".
When we say the word "Suffering" it should be taken to mean "Experiencing" and not feeling the pains.
Bala N. Aiyer
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Namaste!
I have read over and over in different faiths/creeds, that God is love. I was told once that God gives you only what you can take, sounds strange but in my lineage of 'Martial Art', the most advance student gets the biggest stick, I can remember in my final training I was getting pulled up by my instructor a lot, some junior students must have thought, "Good heavens there's Mike getting told off all the time, and not a word to me, he must be a slow learner".
God is allowing you to burn the dross off, to reveal the gold within if you have a suffering time, this usually means your ego is getting crushed. A loving parent does not over protect the child, allows him/her to find his/her place in the world.
Pain and suffering can bring compassion to ones heart, and can deflect you away from self pity if you do what Sri Sathyanarayan implied, turn away from self pity, and observe the suffering of others with an open heart, thank the Beloved that He has melted the stone that enclosed it. Now that is Divine Love!
Om... Shant...
Mike.
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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
If one inquires and discovers the meaning of God, one will know that God doesn't give pain, nor pleasure. Even Karma cannot cause suffering. We know that in the same circumstance, one suffers while another endures it by accepting as Prasadam, right? So, it is clear that it all depends on one's own attitude which can be developed through spiritual sadhana. Swamiji and many Saints are examples. Life or Karma can create situations, not necessarily pains and pleasures!
God doesn't punish or reward anyone! If you say God gives pain, He has also given us Intelligence, Courage to resolve and not go through pains! God is such Intelligence in researchers, doctors, nurses, sincere social volunteers, who help cure our diseases! We never look at this point!!! We have to be fair and impartial to lay any such charges against God!
Another point:
Life is full of events such as birth, death, growth, decay, old age, illness, accidents, natural disasters, etc.. Millions of other species also exist besides us. Thus, a number of circumstances around us get created according to the Laws of nature. As an individual one has no control over any of these events because they are not intended for or against individual at all. Nature just functions impersonally says Gita! If we understand and get detached from our make-believe individuality, there is no suffering! Only a separate ego suffers!
Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt
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Dear Gita-Member,
Lord never gives out pain to anyone. If that was
true then we will never enjoy our lives. We get pain
as we accumulate our bad-karma (including our thinking)
and as we work out our karma then we get to enjoy some
of our lives.
Our physical thinking is the strongest link to our bad karma.
Throw your physical thinking out and replace it with non-
physical thinking (ie, divine, lord, God) and you will see the
difference. This process will take years.
Good Luck! Bye!
Notesh Otes
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Pain and pleasures are purely our interpretations. Things just happen and continue to happen the way they ought to. We experience whatever we perceive. Why do you bring God into it?!
Respects.
Naga Narayana.
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Dear Sadhak,
We are prisoner of our karamas or let us say of our thoughts, expectations of desired outcome at the time of performing an act. Out of ignorance and lack of true knowledge of the self we attributes the outcome of our actions to others, or our self or circumstances or the situation. According to the outcomes being as per expectations or not doer develops attachment or aversion toward such causes considered to be the cause of the outcome thus being obtained for a particular act.
So when the outcome is as per the expectation of the ego self or relative self, ego's expectations are fulfilled and we feel happy else unhappy. The solution lies in the dissolution of the self through karma yoga i.e. working without the fixation to the outcome and submitting to the will of God.
Anil Mukhi
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Sri Sathyanarayanjee
I have a problem with your example.
Humbly
Veena
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one Saadhak has talked about
Maa Kunti-------praying to Lord krishna to give some pain so that it is easy/automatic to remember GOD
HariBol
Badri Taneja
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Dear Sadhakas,Hare Krishna.
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka regarding the Lord and the pain.
Sant kabir in his Dohe (Two liners) said,
"Dukh me sumarin sab kare,
Sukh me kare na koy,
Jo sukh me sumarin kare,
Dukh kahe hoy. "
Which means,
' In troubled times every one thinks of the Lord but in happy times people do not think of Him much. If we think of Him in happy times, we may not get any troubles. '
Truth of the matter is life is a combination of happiness and sorrow. Sant Tukaram suffered.
Ramakrishna paramahamsa also suffered. But if we are into devotional service, that gives us the strength to cope up with the difficult times.
Lord krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,
" Just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. " Gitaji 18, 66.
Let us chant the Mahamantra,
"Hare Rama Hare Rama
Rama Rama Hare Hare,
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
Krishna Krishna Hare Hare. "
That is the key for this Kaliyuga.
Thank you.
Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D.
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Sir,
We are treating pain as something alien, hence can not see the complete picture.
One just tries to undo, to escape the uneasiness generated by any situation by comforting ideas. One does not bear the uneasiness. Bearing it ends the whole game.
One sees the automation of the whole scheme.
One is just busy in seeking comfort through 'why and how'-complaining, blaming, feeling guilty.
Y V Chawla
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Dear Sadak Ref: VEENAJI,
There is lot about cause and effect. Suppose you waste water too much- you will be born in a area where water scarcity prevails. You serve food to needy you get enough food in next birth. You donate money- you get enough wealth. You desire to visit a place constantly, you will born there. That is why in Geetha Bagavan said, Kaamayesu, Krodhyesu etc.First comes the desire: Like Adam and eve desired for apple, then came all the pain. Saint Namadev was on the Lap of Sri Vittalnath, but he said to GOD, I have not completed my Abangs. A desire was pure as those old days Ganga. But God gave Namadev next birth as Tukaram. Absolutely no desire to Tukaram. He left by flying viman sent by GOD to Gods abode, even without turning to see his children and wife, because he knows the creator and sustain-er. Child saint Durva we all know, but he was Bhramin working under a king in his earlier birth when he had desire for wealth of a KING. He never knew the kingdom in heaven is unimaginable wealth and eternal happiness. But he was Sat Bhramin. For being Sat Bhramin he was bestowed with grace of God to be stern, consistent in seeing GOD. But for desire he was son of a king with all the wealth and had to live. Today Durva is in stellar region of his own world. Another example from Bible: Lazerous the rich man and the beggar. The beggar was at the gate of Lazerous. Imagine what amount of waiting for food, what amount of abuses, what amount shame he went through. Same time imagine the rich man what amount ego, abuses he would have done, etc. But when both died, the beggar was going with angels and rich was carried by demons. Upanashid clearly tells, the abuses etc we take from other without murmer, goes to our account in heaven. The abuses, tricks, damages etc we do go to our account in hell. The amount of service we do goes to our account to Boga Lokas where we enjoy most and come back to this earth again. The same service we do without least thought in mind surrendering to GOD saying YOU asked me to do and made me to do and what I performed may be with flaw, so Oh God forgive me. So undergoing suffering without even thinking wrong about anyone leads to heaven. If you enjoy your fruits of your action, the desire grows and grows, eventually to put in hell.. Bagavan Sri Ram born to Dasarath as human without any occult power and was princes but went through saintly life and sufferings. In next incarnation is was Krishna with all occult powers and born in jail but with silver spoon in HIS mouth. Seetha was kept by Ravan in custody. Sri Ram was at the feet of Ravan to listen to Raja Dharam when Ravan was in dying state. Imagine to mind without any vengeance. So Sri Ram did HIS Karma but without fruits of it as said by Geethaji. What I have posted may be nice to some and no interest to some. I posted this message by WILL of GOD, and it HE WHO illumines the thought of this message as nice or useless. A great saint Poothanam wrote Gyanapaana (Drinking divinity) song. But at the end he wrote,'' there is flaws in my song forgive me''. Suprabatham of Bagavan Sri Venkateswara last says, 'there are flaws Oh Lord forgive me''. Both these songs are daily played at Guruvayur and Tirumala. Imagine the humbleness these saints had. I earnestly pray that all of us should gain this humbleness and NO iota of pride/ego throughout our life.
B.Sathyanarayan
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God gives both: the gift of lemons, and the wisdom to make lemonade. When we see lemons let us ask his blessing in finding the recipe to make lemonade, and if we do not find lemons in our life, thank Him and share our recipes of how we dealt with them when we had them.
Hemendra
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It is our thinking that creates pleasure and pain. For a God realised person there is no pleasure and no pain. They are merely two sides of the same coin. In Geeta we are advised not to be too affected by events but to take everything as a passing phase. Everything that we see is a product of our imagination. All things that perish are unreal and that includes our body. The only real thing about us is our Self or Soul which was never born and will never die. So our only concern should be to attain liberation from this endless and painful cycle of birth and death which we can achieve in this life or after 85 lakh lives. The choice is ours.
Hari Shanker Deo
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dukhme sumiran sab karen ,sukh me kare na koy
jo sukh me sumiran karen to dukh kahe ko hoy.
jaishri krishna
Chaman nigam
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The Supreme Reality Brahman is merciful. The human beings are their own enemies. The human senses avoid following the Cosmic laws of Necessity (Rta) and get into major troubles leading to pain, dejection, despair . Follow the Rta which even God follows sternly and escape from pain. Make efforts to become your own friend after knowing who are YOU?
I am not a Body, I have a Body. Once we know ourselves, God mercy is available all the time. Keep human senses under control and ensure these senses do not become masters.
Regards
Prem Sabhlok
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Sai Ram dear Sai bandhusFrom my personal experience, I can only conclude that when we surrender ourselves 100% in the Lotus Feet of our dear Lord & Maa Sai, than he takes over and trains us to become very strong to survive during the hardship we are going through. He always stands by us to ease our pain while we are paying off our Karmas. He stands by us and teaches us hard way to go through suffering that we HAVE to go through. He being a very very kind mother, has to become very harsh mother and gives us bitter medicine and teaches us how to tolerate the pain and go through our daily life. All we have to do is to put full trust in him to help us to go through ups and downs of our life till we finish paying up our debts. Once we have paid, than the peace and harmony that he gives us, is unbelievable.... Please try and surrender unto him and see what happens.... He is a mother and he never give any pain to his children......He only teaches us the right way to deal with the situation we are in.... He suffers more than us to make us happy....... He is Daya ke sagar......
Shakuntla Vishani B.A. (Hons), PGCE
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the greatest pain comes from having assumed an affinity with this body. pain is experienced from association with body and world. On removing that assumption, all pain comes to an end. Lord wants us to be blissful, joyful and eternally happy. He will not let us stay in any place for long and creates situations whereby we have to turn towards Him (so we can be free of all pain). As such, we are already His, only our "drishti" is not in that direction, so we feel distant from Him. Ultimately "being free of pain" is only being at His Lotus Feet, being "sanmukh". Saints have promised us this blissful state.
Bina
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the supplementary question is ,
if karma is the reason for pain, then why pain to bhakta, who are bhakta by birth , for example , prahalaad jii , who are mother and father of god deveki , vasudeva, friend and relative like draupadi, and sudaama.
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